My column next week for MSNBC.com explores why women don’t help each other when it comes to career advancement or landing a job.
I posed a key question: Are we just too bitchy to lend a hand?
I put this query out to women, academics, and PR sources looking for people who could discuss this topic, and received a slew of bitchy comments from women accusing me of being a bitch for even asking the question.
I can’t repeat some of the comments women sent me because they were so bitchy. We’re talking personal attacks.
Maybe you don’t agree with my premise, but hey, you don’t have to be so bitchy.
Women in the executive suite keep telling me that women don’t support each other. Recently I had a meeting in NYC, with a top women executive who bummed me out when she said “women are still not watching each others backs.” I could see what she was saying. We barely are able to get along with our own sisters, girlfriends, mothers.
What the heck is up with that?
Last night, I was watching “Hell’s Kitchen” and I heard a telling comment.
One of the contestants, Autumn Lewis, was now on the mainly male Blue team. She had previously been on the mainly female Red team, but Gordon Ramsey - the bitchy host - put Lewis on the Blue team.
She now found herself to be the lone women among men.
And it was quite nice. She said:
“There’s a camaraderie that men have and when they let you in on it, it seems special.”
It made me wonder why women can’t do more of this. Maybe that’s why we still have not truly infiltrated the corner offices. Maybe that’s why we still make 75 cents on the dollar to men.
We’re so busy fighting each other, whether it’s the debate over stay-at-home moms vs working moms, or our inbred jealousies, that we can’t focus on the real enemy — the establishment that continues to keep women down.
But bring up this topic and many women take offense. Sonia Pressman Fuentes wasn’t happy with me:
I’m one of the founders of the second wave of the women’s movement and I deeply resent your question. I have been fighting for women’s rights for the past forty-seven years, I have had numerous colleagues throughout that time, other women fighting for women’s rights came before us and others still will continue the fight after me. Have you ever heard of Susan B. Anthony, Amelia Bloomer, Lucretia Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Alice Paul, Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughters–Chrisobel and Sylvia, the Grimke sisters, Ernestine Rose, Carrie Chapman Catt, Inez Milholland Boissevain, the Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray, Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, Eleanor Smeal, Kim Gandy, Patricia Ireland, Dr. Bernice Sandler, Bella Abzug, Alva Belmont, Congresswoman Martha Griffiths, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and other feminists too numerous to mention? What do you think they were doing? They were devoting their lives to improve the status of women.
How dare you insinuate that women generally do not help women? We feminists have spent our lives fighting to make the world a better place for women and, therefore, also for men and children of both sexes. Of course, there may be individual women here and there who do not care about other women but to indicate that this is the norm by your insulting question is outrageous.
That was hard for me to read because I consider myself a rabid feminist and I do know great women busted their butts to help other women.
And yes, today, there are women who help each other out there.
I had a Twitter exchange recently with Kelly Hoey, the president of 85 Broads, a networking group of “trailblazing women,” and she strongly made this point:
@jkhoey just had dinner w 20 fab women - peer mentoring, inspiring each other & providing advice, best practice!
She followed up with an email to explain:
The night before our exchange on Twitter. I’d attended a book launch for Aidan Donnelly Rowley - friend, 85 Broads members and organizer of Happier Hour - a diverse group of women who came together to socialize, mingle, laugh, support, connect.
Part of that group are the Firestarter Session Women. A group of us who met because of Danielle LaPorte and a group “Firestarter” session a year ago. Entrepreneurial pow-wow. The Firestarters also meet monthly.
I also have my Wonder Women - 2 law firm partners, a marketing & branding executive, a Managing Partner in a turnaround firm, a journalist & me. Regular dinners to talk life, work, opportunities to do business, ways to help each other advance professionally.
Don’t you want to hang with Kelly and her seemingly non-bitchy Wonder Women?
Look, there is nothing wrong with being a little bitchy, but let’s direct our bitchiness toward eradicating the ills that keep women, and our daughters, from doing what they want.
I know the former Hewlett Packard CEO Carly Fiorina wants to attack Barbara Boxer’s hair, but let’s move beyond that.
I don’t care what her freakin hairdo looks like if she, or Carly, are going to help the cause — equity for women. Equal work, equal pay. Equal respect, for equal work. Right?
And seriously, is there much difference between these hairdos?
Carly should have been making fun of this guy:
June 24th, 2010 at 10:03 am
I may be stepping out on dangerous ground here, but is it possible that many feminists view their own self-advancement as the primary vehicle through which they help other women? That by their (individual) ascension to positions of power, they blaze the way and set an example for others to follow?
If there’s any truth to those thoughts, it might explain why some (many?) women tend to fight with each other rather than act collaboratively. Perhaps, subconsciously, they view any challenge to their own ascension as a challenge to their goal of promoting feminist power and gender equity.
The picture that comes to mind is a classroom where a teacher asks if someone wants to be a Peace Ambassador for the school. The teacher describes the position as an esteemed one, one that is important to all students, and perhaps even one that includes a special field trip at the end of the year. Then, she tells the class of twenty students that she has five application forms. The children push and shove each other to get one of those five applications, completely missing the higher purpose of the role in their individual quests to attain the position (and without a thought that the teacher could copy more forms).
June 24th, 2010 at 10:27 am
I thought you were going to say the teacher picked the one kid that sat there calmly.
I can see women being more desperate for those forms because for so many generations women were not even offered a chance at filling out the application.
That kind of oppression doesn’t disappear over night and maybe the anger over it comes out in unexpected ways.
Things are getting thought. This morning, I talked to Lynne Sarikas, the director of Northeastern University’s MBA career center, and she sees more collaboration among women in the program and also from executive women in the community who help mentor many of the students.
One thing she did say that was depressing and so true is, “unfortunately, there are not enough successful role models at the top.”
Progress is slow. Women, and men, shouldn’t do anything to slow it down even further.
June 24th, 2010 at 10:27 am
So if I get your column correctly your point is: don’t be bitchy at your fellow women. Be bitchy at men cause they suck. Right. That’s advancement.
June 24th, 2010 at 10:33 am
Point taken John. I was trying to be funny with the photo of the always distinguished Sen. Carl Levin, but obviously it didn’t come off that way.
June 24th, 2010 at 11:17 am
I must say that I didn’t recognize the distinguished Senator. I thought it was a poor Bob Newhart impersonator.
June 24th, 2010 at 11:29 am
Maybe the larger point is that people shouldn’t try to network based upon what’s between their legs or not. Maybe they should try to network based on other things. If you have a network based on both men and women who share interests inside and outside the workplace is that really worse than a “you go girl” club? Or is diversity as a strength overrated?
June 24th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
John, I’m not sure this really ties to networking, as it is based on observances of how women often treat other professional women in contrast to how professional men treat other professional men. I agree that we all should network with others based on their skills and abilities, regardless of geneder or other characteristics, but I think the point being made here is about something more primal.
While the debate will continue for a long time as to whether nature or nurture play a greater role in gender differences, most social science research shows that men and women do behave differently, both as individual persons and when in groups. I’ll let her be the final arbiter of her words, but I believe Eve was trying to point out one of these differences, and suggesting that she and her female peers need to change their own ways if they really want to achieve their common goals of equity in the workplace.
June 25th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
I have to tell you I love your “bitchy woman” piece - omg does that hit home. As a 36 year-old mother who has been in the workplace for 16 yrs and “opted out” for a couple years to be home with my 3 boys - ages 11, 9, and 6 - I have found it tough to navigate personalities, moods, nuances of women even when I was knee-deep in the corporate world just a few years ago. I have to react strongly to the comment that Sonia Pressman Fuentes made - and totally disagree with it - while she listed women who have stumped for fellow women - many of them (and I went to a wealthy New England college with “high society” alums, so I know this) came from upper class families who did not have to witness their moms struggle to work, pay rent and bills, and so they didn’t see a face of resentment - back then, voluntarism and political activism was a sort of elitism in its’ own right - many of these woman had the TIME on their hands to stump for other women because they were not out working to support families - and that was a status symbol in its own right. They were the women who came from upperclass (often white) families that had the time and money to protest, or be suffragists, etc. My own New England women’s college spawned many of these women because they came from families where women weren’t oppressed - they had maids, housekeepers, and governesses. These women were amazing role models, of course, and they are great in textbooks- but I find the bitchiest women are the ones who feel threatened and insecure - thus unsupportive of others since they’re not even feeling good about themselves. We need to support women from day one - to help them get back into the workplace, to mentor young girls, to raise respectful young boys. It’s a vicious cyle - thank you for shedding light on this Eve. Boardroom or PTA - it’s still the same because it’s a powerstruggle. When you realize there will always be another women who has more or less than you, you can concentrate on being yourself, and that’s the most empowering thing.
June 27th, 2010 at 8:44 am
You are absolutely correct, most women, once having attained a certain measure of success, do not mentor other women, and more often than not, are bitchy.
Reason #1: Men tend to feel entitled to whatever level of success they achieve. Women are either filled with amazement and gratitude or constantly looking for something that threatens that success. Insecurity leads to bitchiness.
Reason #2: Because we never feel entitled, we fear mentoring a sister who might either embarrass us or, worse yet, outshine us. Bitchy backstabbing ensues.
Reason #3: We believe that “I did it the hard way, why should I make it easier for you?” (Just plain bitchy-this gal is probably bitchy to everyone).
Reason #4: Both men and women rarely recognize the efforts of someone who comes from a different socio-economic background than they. So, if you come from a family who did not go to college and you are trying to prepare yourself for a promotion that requires a college degree they are unlikely to mentor you, regardless of whether or not you have actually achieved a college degree. I’ve seen many, many professional women be dismissive of women who are one generation behind them when it comes to education.
Reason #5: (the biggie) We never had a mentor. We don’t know what one looks like. We don’t recognize and cannot model mentoring behaviors.
July 6th, 2010 at 9:05 am
One key difference I’ve noticed in observing male mentorship at work is that the more experienced man seems to see it as a status symbol for himself to have an up and comer in his circle. In other words the younger/less experienced man feeds his ego and makes him look more impressive.
Women don’t operate this way. Two reasons: 1) We cannot get past the appearance issue, which does not seem to be a factor for men. Youth always wins in that category and the sad thing is that women who are past 40 learn quickly that youth and appearance matter in the workplace more than they may have realized in their younger years. 2) Women don’t like to surround themselves with talented people because we tend to operate in a zero-sum game. Our insecurity causes us to feel that if one person does something well, we lose points.