So I checked the comments on my blog this morning and I came across one by Robert Graham, a long time reader of CareerDiva and one who, although I don’t always agree, makes me think.
At first I could feel the anger bubbling up in me, but I gave myself a moment to let it sink in.
Here’s an excerpt:
You are a parent 24/7. If you are not, then you are not a good parent.
Women most assuredly belong in our government at every level. However, a childless or unmarried woman would do a far better job.
The comment came at an interesting time. Yesterday evening my husband and I had a melt down over how difficult it is to raise two young kids, keep the household running, and keep our careers moving forward.
And today Robert hits me with this whammy.
His thoughts are not new. Late last year, Pennsylvania’s Governor Ed Rendell pretty much said the same thing about Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano.
“Janet’s perfect for that job,” Rendell says. “Because for that job, you have to have no life. Janet has no family. Perfect. She can devote, literally, 19, 20 hours a day to it.”
Many working moms, and working dads for that matter, often complain to me about the struggles they face balancing it all. It seems close-minded to say these people just aren’t as good at their jobs during the years when their raising the little buggers.
But I think it’s fair to include this opinion in the discussion.
That said, the biggest hole in the argument that working parents can’t cut it is this — you can not plan exactly how your life goes.
I’m old enough now to realize that sometimes life has a plan for you you never expected. I’ve lost family members, had friends die or fall ill. We never know what will happen to us or when.
Saying you will wait 10 or 20 years until your children can take care of themselves creates a huge gap in what could have been great achievements. Maybe you were meant to teach a generation of children in your community, or run a company that develops a life saving drug.
George Bailey got to see what the world would be like without him in “It’s a Wonderful Life” and you know what, the world sucked.
Society has to be more open, and the workplace more flexible, or we risk losing out on individuals that could have made a difference. We’ve already lost out on so many women that sacrificed their entire working lives for their children. I wonder what they would have done if they were able to balance it all and were encouraged by people, not put down. I’m sure my mother would have made a difference.
Robert is right, you’re a parent 24/7 and that’s both great and difficult. But that doesn’t mean we can’t be whole, contributing members of society. Clearly society needs these mothers.
I’d even argue that parents who just pour all their energies into their children are doing their families and society a disservice.
What’s your take?
April 30th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Eve, does a woman need to have a career in order to make a meaningful contribution to society? I think back on my mother who gave of her time to help out other moms who were struggling, who volunteered with the Cub Scouts and various church groups. She made a difference in the lives of many, but she never formally pursued a career.
Yes, she did work from time to time as her family had need, but her greatest desire always was to be at home–she said so on so many occasions (and she was not one to simply parrot cultural expectations).
If you do a little research, I think you’ll find the “single-childless” prefernce model is still an unwritten code in many industries. In IT, where many positions require long and irregular hours, you’ll find many single, childless men (and women) who can give 12, 16, or more hours in a day to tackle the job. I’m married with a large family and I’m in a job where those crazy hours are sometimes foisted upon me (when major projects near completion, or when major problems occur). If I were single, it would be tiring, but it would only affect me. During my last such period, it not only exhausted me, however, but also put tremendous strain on my family. It took more than a month after things returned to “normal” before things really settled down again at home.
I believe there’s a big difference between saying “she’s perfect for that job because she doesn’t have the commitments and concerns that come with parenting” and saying “she should never even consider that job because she should stay home and start trying to have kids.” The former is an honest acknowledgement. The latter is unnecessarily judgmental and sad.
Also, I believe the “It’s a Wonderful Life” comparison falls short. In that movie, we see someone who wanted to end his life, who even wished he had never been born. Not being here at all is very different from being here but in a different role. What would the remake have looked like if George Baily had been born but took a less prominent role in Bedford Falls? Yes, things would have been different, but can we say they would have been better or worse?
For me, becoming a father included the choice to pour myself into another life, even if it meant I would miss out on opportunities. What have I missed? While nothing is a surety, there were opportunities to provide volunteer service in Russia; opportunities to take jobs that included much travel; chances to go back to school not just to earn a degree in my current field but to actually pursue something I love (music and language); opportunities to live as a wilderness guide. Is society somehow lacking because I didn’t pursue those opportunities? I don’t think so. Others have served, others have traveled, I still make music, and others do guide. Had I pursued those opportunities, my wife and I likely would not have ten wonderful children, each of whom will make their own mark on society.
Is society missing out on something because my wife prefers to be a homemaker and a mother first and foremost? You might argue “yes” and assume that her potential is squandered, but I see her as making an investment in many lives–far beyond our own ten children. The problem seems to be that you are willing to measure contributions only by what you can see today, in the present. You may never see her contributions because she does not make the national stage, but that does not lessen their importance. Who will benefit from her life in generations to come? Future spouses and future children; future bosses and employees; future towns and cities; future organizations–all in all, she is changing the world by pouring herself into ten lives (not including the efforts she pours into mine).
[BTW–Happy anniversary, Mrs. HikingStick
]
April 30th, 2009 at 10:12 am
Happy anniversary!
You know, I always appreciate your take on things…but….
I know I’m going to get grief for this, but I don’t think women are great contributors to society if they just birth babies and care for them.
I love my children but just because I birthed them doesn’t make me a Gandhi or a Marie Curie, sorry.
For some reason, lately, we’ve tried to elevate motherhood to a status that I’m not sure it deserves. I’m lost as to why this has happened.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I think the root of the problem is keeping up with the Jones’ mentality. People taking on ridiculous careers for a high salary and then expecting the workplace to automatically bend to their parenthood is un-reasonable. Not to say it doesn’t’ happen or shouldn’t happen, but the sense of entitlement so that a family can afford a lifestyle is a bit presumptuous. This goes for both mothers and fathers.
Kudos to the ones who make it work. I was brought up by a single mom and did okay, but it was craziness all along. We never moved out of the little apartment and therefor never missed a certain “comfortable” lifestyle. I think this gave our small family unit an advantage of flexibility and ruggedness in contrast to the distinct disadvantage of not having a father in the household.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Life is like traffic. You go as far as you can, as fast as you can, and then you stop…whether you stop because you have children and your career is put on hold, or you stop because you get married and your children go on hold b/c you’re not ready, you stop.
I am a full-time working mother…I work 40 hours at a job that satisfies me in so many more ways than being a mom does. It helps me…so I can help my family…I can provide for them and I can have sanity when I go home. However, I don’t think that my career is flourishing as it would had I not had children. Right now, my focus is on family and my work is a job to earn money. I come in, put in my time, and go home. I chose this job so that I can do this. I don’t anticipate getting a promotion or a new job in my current situation. I can take a day off to take my daughter to the pumpkin patch with her preschool class and I can afford to take Fridays off and work 4 10 hour days.
The SAHMs that I know spend hours a day on laundry, on the computer doing facebook and such, and going to playdates that are more about meeting other moms than spending time with your kid. I know about 60 of these moms. They’re not bad, but they’re not spending more quality time or teaching their kids anything that I’m not teaching mine.
I want my daughter to learn to do things right…to know right from wrong and to love herself and have confidence to do what she wants and thinks is best for her family some day. A lot (not all) SAHMs that I know think their way is the only way. I don’t. What is good for their families would not work for mine.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:57 am
I apologize in advance Eve but I feel very strongly about this issue. Many comments made by women claiming to want the best for women (which in their mind is work outside the home) irk me beyond belief. They do this standing on the platform that career successes are more important than anything else. What happened to personal fulfillment? Very closeminded views. I could also argue the point that half the problem with society today is the breakdown of the family unit. We are not just supposed to birth them and ignore them. Too many parents (men and women…because I refuse to delineate) are working too many hours and having institutions such as schools become parents to their children. But I won’t argue that point because I believe we all have different things we excel in and different things that make us feel whole and successful. I’ve done both and feel both are rewarding and beneficial to society. I think a good mix of females in all types of positions (home or otherwise) is ideal. Males too for that matter. Why are we spending time worrying about others’ contributions to society in regards to career choice? It seems to me the people worried about this have issues they themselves are trying to work out. Guilt? In over their heads? Demons from the past? I don’t know. And, that’s okay. Just don’t try to work them out while making others feel poorly about choices that make them satisfied. When it’s all said and done, women (and men) please contribute in whatever way you feel works for you.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I definitely should make myself clear — career successes in the traditional sense are not the only way to contribute. I’m talking about volunteering, pursuing the arts, a host of things. Everyone defines success in their own way. I just want our society to get all the gifts that women have to offer, what ever it is they want to offer.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Eve, there’s an old saying that says “too many chefs spoil the soup.” In society, not everyone is a high-achiever, a Madam Curie, a Mother Theresa, or a Ghandi. That’s not a bad thing. We need people in all places and in all stations of life. That’s not to say that one should neither dream nor try to achieve. Some are content with little, some are content with much, but some seem always to be hungering for more. I wonder if we, as a people, could learn to be more grateful and content. I wonder what then would become of so many of our cultural norms of drive and ambition.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
I could not agree more that being a parent is aboslutely a 24/7 job, but that does not mean that being a parent prohibits you from adding value to society (and your children) in other ways. In fact, I think those parents that devote 100% of their time and 100% of their attention to their children while neglecting other important relationships (aka your spouse) and aspects in your life are not doing their children any favors. Do children need to be loved? Of course. Do they need to know that you are there to support them? Of course. Does that mean that you drop anything and everything to accomodate your child’s every beck and call? I don’t think so. Life is all about balance. I think a big part of parenting (and being a successful career person) is finding that balance as well - whether you are male or female.
The women I have the pleasure and honor of working with every day are some of my greatest female role models. Not only are they some of the smartest people I’ve ever met, but they have been able to strike an incredible balance between being successful, bright career people (most upper managemetn of my firm) and amazing mothers. I think that having an interest and life outside of their children makes women better, more well rounded mothers.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Interesting topic, my points are as follows:
1) I would be a terrible full-time mom for more than 3 months
2)Would society be better if more men stayed home or at least considered the work-life balance for themselves?
3)I believe society benefits from people being comfortable with who they are and what they aspire to. I believe childern can benefit from being lead to appreciate and grow their own gifts.
4)I believe we learn and grow and change at each stage of our human development- and that is okay to do whatever we need to at that time tocare for our society, fmaily and souls!
April 30th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
If “You are a parent 24/7. If you are not, then you are not a good parent” is the definition, no one is a good parent. No one can devote themselves 24/7 to parenting.
Start with the fact that you are a man or woman 24/7 (I’m a terrible parent already!) and then sleep maybe and then go to supporting your spouse in a marriage perhaps and then add in a hobby. Did I mention people work? And volunteer?
All of this is a false argument. Life is about making choices. A child is a choice and your life changes because of it. Work is a choice and your life changes because of it. Volunteering is a choice and your life changes because of it.
What people have difficulty with is determining the validity and continuing belief that the choices they have made are still right for them. That’s what most of these comments are advocating — their choices. That’s a good thing since it focuses people on what they are doing and determining if it is right for them.
It’s like saying “life-work balance” as if those were the only two choices. It’s not. It’s just life. And it’s never balanced.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:35 am
‘'’I’d even argue that parents who just pour all their energies into their children are doing their families and society a disservice.”’-Eve
Your children did not ask to be brought into this world. You owe them everything. And if that means video games or computers, and that is what you believe is right, so be it. If that means your time, then it is the most precious time you have. Children do not change. They never have. Society changes.And YOU ARE SOCIETY. Any disservice is to not devote your self to your children while they are in your charge. The rest of society can kiss my ass and yours. Then again, think of the children, the young teens, young adults who cause so much grief to society with drugs, violence and disreguard for you and yours. Do you think these people had parents who payed attention to them?
Is that not a greater disservice to society?
I find it easier to believe in God or Allah, or whomever human spirit becomes. (Allah means God by the way) If I am to make a difference in this world, then I want to believe that it will be in my children. Or their children. What happens will occur in time anyway.
Time does keep everything from happening all at once. If you are a parent, you have the most difficult job in the world no doubt. If you are childless, your job or life is not meaningless. No one is. You are you 16 hours a day if you sleep 8 hours a night. At least you sleep and be more clear minded.
Everything I just wrote applies to Woman and Men.
Honestly. There is no ill will or cruel vituperation to my response that made you think. I even alluded to the fact that it sounded like a male ‘pig’ for me to say that. I have told you my story before. It is easier for me to write than to talk. My wife is an excellent mother, and she has not been able to be a mother for some time. She has been ill for several years and she may not make it past this summer. The last two of six children are about to graduate HS and one will next year. I cherish every moment I have with my wife and will cherish that forever. I used to tell her that I hope she would die the day before I do so she would never have to know how much it hurts to lose someone. My god it is coming true and that is why it is hard for me to talk about it. But the man in me knows, a parent is a parent be it a Mom or a Dad. And you men are wimps(weakly interacting molecular particles) if you cannot pick it up where woman have always allegedly been. I thank God everyday I’ve learned to cook, but I thank God every moment he made my shoulders out of granite.
I find strength in these words, and I have not been to church in decades:
Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.
9 What does the worker gain from his toil? 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on men. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. 13 That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God. 14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.
‘WE all have it coming’-Clint Eastwood in ‘The Unforgiven’
May 1st, 2009 at 7:35 am
Just to be clear, I believe parents should devote themselves to their kids. But there is sensible, nurturing devotion and there is turning yourself over to parenting and losing yourself. This is not a good thing for your children, yourself, or society.
May 1st, 2009 at 11:35 pm
@Scot H.-Please understand you are not a bad parent. No one should truely be so judgemental and it sounds like I may have offended many. Forgive me. As far as ‘choices’, never in the history of humans on this planet has there been an accidental child. That young child does not bond with you, you bond to the young child. A newborn has no idea what this is until many years. Most simply never do.
I’ve worked extensively with children who are terminally ill. Even against my own children’s defiance because I spent a lot of time doing so. The saddest is the child who’s ‘loving’ parents have all but abandoned the child. I’ve heard the excuses like, ‘We have three other children who are normal and we felt that it was bad for them to experience such pain’ to ‘I’ve dedicated my life to being an _______(one time two lawyers, we simply cannot take care of this child’.
THE only woman I ever hit, and hit good was the bitch attorney who came to her daughter’s funeral and cried all over the place. She left little Gabriella in the hospital because she was blind and deformed. She was an attorney. Her husband was too. What the hell if you ever need an attorney and you see a husband and wife law firm, ask if they are form Fox Chapel. If they are, slap her silly and punch him in the nose with a roundhouse right. That jerk closed the window on his Porsche after I slapped his wife across the face. This was in 1989, he was on his giant box car phone telling the police some asshole, me, was violently attacting them with a weapon. The poice were rough with me at first, but after the caseworker and the Minister explained the circumstances, they treated me real good. Charges were dropped as long as I did not make any public statements about this careeer couple from hell.
Back to my reasoning. The old saying that life is short depends entirely on how tired you are. There really is time for everything. Eve’s original post was about denying society the triumph, the presence of those mothers who choose to be mothers. Another aspect was that their are woman who do just that. Raise their children and after that is accomplished, they go into a career or politics. My point of view is simply if you become so involved with your career and do not raise your children with the utmost of your time and experience, the disservice is providing society with bad aspects. There exist no easy answers. There exist no real blueprint to be a successful person, let alone parent. It is akin to eating right, exercise, don’t smoke and so on..YOU will die eventually anyway.Jim Fixx, the running guru was an idol of mine in the 70’s when I was a young jock. He died while running in his 40’s. I was recently ejected from my 95 year old Grandmother’s nursing home. I was initially told about giving her snack goods that are bad for you. They booted me because I gave her a carton of cigarettes in the snack bag. For heaven’s sake she was giving the attendant a $10 bill for a pack and she told me how soggy the cigarette becomes when you are smoking in the bathroom with the shower running so the steam hid the smoke. Another reason was I made fun of the lady who was the nutritionist at the facility for over 20 years. She died at 62 recently and I made a joke about it and every patient there laughed about it.
So now you know the kind of person I am, so why should you take me seriously?
May 2nd, 2009 at 2:29 am
Alright, someone sent me this video that almost changes my mind about the importance of MOTHERS….
CBS.wmv (4.2 MB)
May 4th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Eve, I guess you hit on a nerve with this one. Perhaps something for a future, more detailed series?
So many cite the danger of “losing yourself” when you begin parenting. It may not be true for all, but I found that parenting introduced me to my true self (both good and bad). I find more joy in hearing “Daddy’s home!” from my kids than I’ve ever found in even the most glowing performance review.
I just believe we need to be charitable with each other and understand that each family must learn to make its own way. I believe we all do what we think is in the best interest of our families. As we age, we realize we’ve each made mistakes along the way. Some of those mistakes may be things others saw in our lives and cautioned us against, but other mistakes may have happened behind closed doors when words were used to cut rather than to uplift. I believe we each will give account of the lives we have lived someday, and I know that none of us is perfect. I find my hope in mercy and forgiveness, and I try to use moments like this one to remind myself to be more merciful and forgiving.
December 29th, 2009 at 2:18 am
I am a better employee and corporate diva because I am a mom. Otherwise why do it? Why even get up in the morning, or buy a house in a town? Why not just be roaming vagabond? Once I had a kid I had a better reason to get up in the morning and do my best to make the world a better place for him. I want him to meet and respect strong women and thus I see no other choice than leading my life by example. It would be fun to hang out with him more, but he doesn’t love me any less for it. Because I work and pull in 60 plus hours, when I am home he and I spend quality time together, and we make jokes, learn, teach, sing, etc. Routine is good for children, too and my routine with my child teaches him important lessons, along with respect for good old fashioned hard work. I would not have it any other way and I truly think women who choose not to work short change themselves and their children. They have a lot more to gain in the long run by having an independent socio- economic self created status, a lot more to provide for their families and society by being gainful contributors to each of those institutions. I am not just talking money, there are important life lessons and selfless desire to really love your child in a meaningful way by leaving the world a little better (not worse!) off than you found it. That’s what I think.